Lena Siebertz, Cold Water Sirens, Northern Germany and Denmark

Lena Siebertz, founder of Cold Water Sirens, not only braves near-freezing conditions, but relishes them. In temps as low as 37F/2.7C, Lena is forging a community of feminist surfers in Northern Germany and Denmark to transform surf culture beyond the old competitive paradigm, using cold water as part of the reset. Lena and I bonded over surfing head injuries earlier this year, sharing our progress as our stitches healed and trauma ebbed. We found the true meaning of community! Lena and her surf grrrl gang are creating something truly unique in their gatherings - including systemic coaching, cold water therapy, and even Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu! Starting surfing as an adult, Lena withstood early pummelings from the surf, her board, and heartless instructors. Her call to the ocean overpowered her fear, and galvanized her to support others in a non-competitive, feminist exploration of surf and community. Fueled by her background as an artist, producer of a techno festival, and generally totally cool chick, Cold Water Sirens is expanding the surf gathering experience and creating something totally fresh and resetting.

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Follow Lena @coldwatersirens on IG and the crew:
@beitskek
@kates.surfyoga
@patrizia_co.z
@fine.longboarding

Festival: Nation of Gondwana (https://www.instagram.com/nation_of_gondwana_pyonen/)

Anna's Systemic Coaching Webpage: (https://www.vanlifecoaching.de / https://www.instagram.com/van_lifecoaching/ )

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Transcript

[00:08] Sheila: Welcome to the Dropping Into Power podcast, where we'll be hearing stories about the transformational power of surfing from women surfers of all ages, all levels and all over. We'll hear about courage, commitment, struggles, frustration, epiphany, and of course, like transformations large and small. I'm your host, Sheila Gallion, and I am stoked to share these conversations full of so much passion with all of you. Aloha, thank you so much for joining us on the Dropping Into Power podcast. I'm very excited about my next guest and we actually met Trauma Bonding, which we'll share about a little bit later on. But Lena Sievert is the founder of Cold Water Sirens and we'll talk much more about that. But one reason I'm fascinated to talk to Lena is that she lives now, for you Europeans, it's not going to be so exotic, but for a lot of us, imagining surfing in water that goes down to 37 degrees is a little bit humbling. So this is one reason that I was so fascinated by her story and also just that we've connected. So she actually lived in Berlin for almost 20 years and she has a whole alter ego. She was very much involved in the art and culture scene, working as a cultural producer and artist and filmmaker, and for a big techno music festival. She returned during the pandemic to her bertown of Hamburg and then rediscovered the north and Baltic Sea, which is these are again, just very exotic to me. The north and Baltic Sea is a playground for surfing, especially during the winter. The winter. All right. And she's the founder of Cold Water Sirens, which is an organization that she's created to build feminist community in the surf scene, bringing people together through, for example, organize surf trips and get together. And I just saw a new something that you had posted about. So welcome, Lena.

[02:06] Lena: Hi. Really nice to be here. Hi, Sheila.

[02:08] Sheila: So nice to finally meet. Lena and I have been trying for a long time to finally make this happen. So between schedules and WiFi and injuries, it's taken a little bit. So let's start with how we met. I had just sliced my head open and Lena sent me this amazing picture of her all bandaged up herself and said, hi, this just happened to me too. So tell us what happened to you.

[02:37] Lena: Yeah, actually, I was reaching out to you because I think we actually had our accident very much at the same weekend, I think. So, yeah, it was pretty much the same day, maybe even. And I saw it and was like, what? And then I was like, yeah, writing you, asking you how you were and how it happened. But also, yeah, we got in touch very fast about how to cope.

[03:00] Sheila: Okay, so you were saying just our video got a little glitchy that we were in touch about how to cope.

[03:07] Lena: Yeah, exactly. Because I was also looking for podcasts or text where people were writing or talking about how to cope with surf injuries. And most of the things I found was really not helpful was pretty much guys saying and then I got the job and just went in back because the forecast looked good and because I also saw that you were surfing for a while and probably maybe had also more maybe also other injuries before and surfing in Hawaii. So I also ask you, hey, do you have any experience coping with these kinds of accidents? And that's how we got in touch because I really had injury with also some stitches and it was kind of scary and I was really asking myself how to get back in the water and that's why I was trying to reach out to you and you replied.

[04:03] Sheila: Really fast and I do want to talk about that. Just walk us through the details of what happened and then let's talk about that part of who knows what I said because I was on painkillers and had 16 staples in my head but I can go back and read it. But I think you said, well go ahead and describe what happened in yours.

[04:28] Lena: Yeah, I mean, it was happened in the beginning of the year, in January, so it was quite cold and the waves were really nice. But I already noticed that it was changing a bit and I know the spot. Quite well. So I knew if it's going towards slow tide that there's going to be a little bit of a weird current going on. Yeah, but I really wanted to have this famous last wave and it was also kind of windy and yeah, I kind of ****** up my pop up and the board went flying. Unfortunately nobody was around me and I was covering my head and I thought that it was already landing next to me. I thought I saw it so I took off my arms but then it crashed on my head so it was not next to me, it was still flying and it's quite a big heavy long board. I knew exactly this moment that it was bad.

[05:27] Sheila: Did the fin cut you or did it just a blunt impact?

[05:31] Lena: Yeah, no, it was actually the nose, the nose of the board.

[05:36] Sheila: Oh my God.

[05:38] Lena: Yeah, I thought it was the fin for a second but later on I checked the board just thinking like I should check it, maybe it's also broken. Like I did that a couple of days later it was broken, was actually broken.

[05:52] Sheila: Wow.

[05:53] Lena: Yeah, but I was super lucky and I for some reason caught the next wave and surfed out with a bleeding hat and a good friend of mine already saw then that something was wrong and yeah, there were also more friends and they took me to the hospital right away and they took really good care very fast. It was really, really nice. People in the hospital as well. And yeah, that was really amazing and.

[06:20] Sheila: It was right along your forehead. We'll have to post our side by side photos.

[06:25] Lena: Before and after. Yeah, there was six stitches and also two of my teeth were broken, but the bone structure was fine. It's fine. So in general, I was super, super lucky.

[06:42] Sheila: It's so interesting with mine too, a wave came right after and took us in. And those are gifts. Those are gifts from the sea, because it's a whole other story if somebody has to get us in this intense experience and then just this, like me, similarly, just this experience of being really well taken care of afterwards by the ocean. Not to answer pomorifies, but just feeling that support. Thank you. And then friends and people getting you to the hospital and taking care and the great care. It definitely is a testament to having community in the surf and decent people, even if they're strangers, are going to help you. But I knew all the people that helped me too, some of them not as well as others. We know each other better now, so it really does. Surfing breeds such a competitive atmosphere. It is really a good reminder that the sense of community is so important.

[07:50] Lena: And at the same time, it was important not to go surf by yourself or not to go to a spot where there's nobody else. Right. That can happen in winter.

[08:02] Sheila: Absolutely. And you can want to. I mean, there's a level at which that is a risk you may want to take.

[08:09] Lena: Yeah.

[08:10] Sheila: Most of us may never really achieve that. I've surfed alone quite a bit. I know I won't be alone for very long, some if I get there first. But this accident really made me think about it also really made me think about a helmet. A lot of people are wearing helmets now and I think I'm going to get one because once I had a concussion, nobody talked to me about it, which is really weird. But I had to have and I still had symptoms afterwards and I have some tenderness and numbness and it's just I do notice, and we'll talk about the aftermath a little bit, that I do have some hesitation and the hesitation is not necessarily a good thing in surfing. It can be dangerous. Now, I think what I could go back and read what I said. I don't actually remember what I said, but I'm pretty sure what I would have said is because I know what I did is to just really listen to your own body and be really patient, but I don't know if you remember what else I said. What did we come up with?

[09:20] Lena: Well, I think it was basically just be patient, but also start slow and low, like small waves and be good to yourself, actually, but also going back in. Right. And I think that was also funny because we both also went back in on the very same weekend. How crazy. Yeah, I think that was like, maybe five weeks, six weeks later.

[09:46] Sheila: That sounds about right. Yeah, about five weeks.

[09:49] Lena: And I think my concussion was for about four weeks, maybe. I still felt like I had, like, this hangover kind of situation and yeah. And then when I felt I was gone, then I tried to jump back into the water as fast as possible and then we actually were in touch again, and it was basically pretty much the same day that we both went in.

[10:13] Sheila: That was awesome. Yeah. Not that I would ever wish anyone to have the injury, but it was really fun, comforting to have this partner across the world going through this same piece. And I have had other injuries, definitely nothing like this one. I mean, this was very next level and it was very weird. That the PA so here in the US. We have a growing group of people, physicians, assistants, who sort of step in because of the sort of as many doctors, whatever. So when I went to have my staples removed, first of all, this woman was a ******. It was only like seven days in and I had 16 staples in my head. And it's like a staple remover. I mean, they literally go in with, like, a staple remover and stick it underneath your bleeding, tender staples and just rip them out of your head. And I was like, Will you numb me or anything? She's like, oh, that would hurt even worse. And I'm like, I don't know if I can get through this. She's like, well, you're going to have to. So anyways, not a lot of bedside manner, but I asked her because we have relatively clean water here, but sometimes there's staff, like, almost anywhere that there's people. And so I had asked her, when do you think I can go back in the water? And she's like, oh, you can go in now. Just use soap and water. Okay. No, just FYI to anyone listening, no, don't go right back out. Wait till you're healed. I did not listen to that. So it took, I think, for me, about five weeks before I felt like the cut was sealed. It is just not a place anybody wants to get an infection. And for me, when I went back out, it was tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny. And so nobody was out. So it was actually perfect. I could just sort of glide in and there wasn't a soul around. Because what I've noticed is I'm not really afraid of the wave. I'm not even really afraid of the takeoff a little bit. I have a little bit of a hesitation, but I do have a panic around long borders.

[12:16] Lena: We shouldn't go surf together.

[12:19] Sheila: Well, yeah, later. And it depends on the conditions, too. And it depends on the long border. Let's just say I have a panic about very beginning, long borders. And even though the person that it was such a freak accident, the person that hit me was not a beginner, it was a freak thing. But yeah, I do have a little bit of a panic when I see somebody coming down the line, but I'll be over it by the time we meet. Are you having any repercussions or what's your experience now? A couple of months in, actually.

[12:52] Lena: Now I feel very good about it, and I am more cautious, but I guess that's also not bad, necessarily. I stay away from crowds more than before, but I mean, I did it before, too, that I really just checked how everybody is surfing, who's dropping into other people, who's able to control the board, who isn't. I always did that. So I do this now, too. Maybe a little bit more, I feel with bigger waves. I think I still like them, but maybe also a little bit more cautious. But I'm not afraid of the wave, actually. I'm also just afraid of the boards and are cautious about the boards. And because I also know exactly what I did wrong, I can also change it. So I take even more care to really cover my head for longer than necessary, probably most of the times. What I'm also a bit more cautious about is if the waves are breaking far out, because I do have this now in my head that there might be the situation that you should get back to the shore. So I still like, okay, could I actually take the wave up until the shore, or would I need to take three waves, or would I need to swim or paddle or whatsoever? That's also a little bit in my head.

[14:29] Sheila: That's interesting.

[14:30] Lena: Yeah, I'm actually super fine.

[14:33] Sheila: That's great.

[14:34] Lena: Yes. But also going back in the first time, I was with friends, and they were super supportive, and I was also very relieved because I didn't have any anxiety when I was in. It was also not the smallest day, I must say, but it was okay. But I felt in the first two times I was more insecure and nervous, but I didn't have any anxiety, which was great.

[14:59] Sheila: That makes sense.

[15:00] Lena: Yeah.

[15:01] Sheila: And I love that you were able to go back through and say, okay, well, this is what happened. I'm not going to do that again. I think I shared with you when we chatted before that my first few months that I was surfing, I went to Costa Rica and went to Witches Rock. And it was tiny but very windy. And I fell off my board and I stood up because it was that kind of beach break. And I was looking around for my board and then it landed on my head. So, yeah, I've heard about I learned about Wind that day because it literally had held my board suspended above me long enough for me to literally stand up and look around like, where is the board? So we do learn these things and it is day by day and things are pointy. I do still think I'm going to get a helmet, but it's very encouraging. Go ahead.

[15:51] Lena: A good friend of mine, a good friend who I also surf a lot with Patricia, she just sent me a message that she had a dream where I was wearing a surf helmet exactly the same beautiful color as my board. But I think I don't know. Do you have experience wearing helmets?

[16:10] Sheila: No, it's kind of catching on here. And a guy recently, actually, a guy that came over and took pictures of my house for an appraisal was telling me about his that he got and he says that you can get them pretty lightweight because I was concerned, like, does it throw your balance off? Does it hurt your neck? And I guess he had one that had like a visor on it for a while or a big lip and that would literally rip his like the water would catch and whiplash him. So that sounds bad.

[16:40] Lena: So?

[16:40] Sheila: Yeah, I don't yet. I do see some people starting to wear them more. And especially here, it's such a reef. There's so much rock and reef. So we'll see. I know, I mean, if anyone would be wearing one, you'd think it would be me. But it was really such a freak. It really was a freak thing. But I do think about it, especially with swordboards or I guess with any board, it sort of also protects that a little bit of your face area. And maybe it's just that there's more people in the water now. You have a lot of padding from your wet suits. Okay, let's talk a little bit about where you surf. And I'll have to get my Celsius translator out.

[17:22] Lena: Here.

[17:26] Sheila: The coldest water, I think we did this translation before that I had served in was 50 degrees, like 48 degrees Fahrenheit, which I think I'll Google it while we're talking. But just tell us a little about where you serve and we can talk even a little about cold water therapy because I know this is something part of your whole sort of thing which is fascinating to me.

[17:51] Lena: I mean, I mostly serve in northern Germany and Denmark, but I also like to go, for example, to Britannia, to northern France, where it's a little bit warmer, I would say warm. So in autumn and winter, the waves are best in northern Germany and in Denmark much better than in northern Germany. But there are also waves here and in winter it goes down to four degree, which I think should be around 39 Fahrenheit. And yeah, I just returned from Denmark and I think it was now five degrees. So just a tiny bit warmer. But we are still wearing the thickest wetsuits, which is like 6 thick gloves and shoes in general, you have much more volume. You are much heavier, which leads also to a different surf experience. So you tend to have a bit more volume in the boards too, because you just generally yeah, that's interesting.

[19:06] Sheila: And you're more buoyant in a way when you fall off. But yeah, I hadn't thought about with that level of wetsuit. So I think, okay, eight degrees, 8.8 is 48 degrees Fahrenheit and you go down to four, did you say?

[19:21] Lena: Yes.

[19:23] Sheila: So that would be I just show people in the Fahrenheit. So 37 is two. I have to go to maybe yeah.

[19:32] Lena: Actually in the Baltic Sea it can go down to two because it gets colder because there's less salt. So that's maybe very coldest.

[19:41] Sheila: So two degrees is 37 degrees. No matter how you look at it, that's very close to freezing in any temperature gauge. And then 4.4 degrees is 40 degrees Fahrenheit. So this is chilly.

[20:00] Lena: Yeah, that's chilly.

[20:01] Sheila: You have embraced this, though. You've embraced this cold water as part of your health rituals.

[20:09] Lena: Yeah, I mean, I didn't really think about it before, but as I said, I moved back to Hamburg during the Pandemic and I think lots of people kind of rediscovered local surfing places then just because you could not go somewhere else. Yeah, and then we went quite a lot surfing also in the Baltic and the Northern Sea. And I mean, people did that before.

[20:32] Sheila: Too, but I think it was just.

[20:34] Lena: More people doing it. And also, we all know that this is still a very challenging time and not only because of the Pandemic, there are lots of reasons, but I started to notice that it really, really helped me coping with anything surfing itself. I guess everyone who does it knows it is a very or can be a very resetting experience. It can be very meditative. It's a lot of things. It's for many people, the happy place and the source of power. But I think this is even enhanced through the cold water experience just because of the release of all other hormones and transmitters like dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, endorphins. And I think it's just a bit more it really helps with being in mild forms of depression or anxiety. And I mean, that's not news with cold water. I think lots of people have done it over the centuries and also nowadays, like those dudes like Wim HOF or I mean, also earlier, this other dude, Snipe, or his name is like it's not a secret, but I think the combination of cold water and surfing, that's really a really perfect recipe. I mean, not for everyone, for sure, but for me it's like really pushing the reset button and it works.

[22:07] Sheila: That's really fascinating. I'm not as familiar. I just recently have sort of come into cold water therapy. I just have such a resistance to being cold for many, many reasons. And my friend, she has an ice, she has like a freezer that she does as an ice bath. And I can stay in there. I'm really proud for, I would say one and a half seconds. It's about as far as I make it. And I know people now doing it for like ten minutes. When I served. It's interesting, because when I served in Humboldt when I started, and it was that again, 47 to 54, which I think is about eight to eleven. Eight to twelve or something, if I really think back at it, that could have been part of it was a very resetting experience, and it could have been that cold water added a whole other level. But I think you're talking about getting to your coldness, I think is where the benefits start to happen. I didn't realize all of those hormones were released. It's really cool. I can really imagine as you start to create this community, that people could seek it out as yeah, not just the surf experience, but the reset experience with the cold water. I love that. That's really interesting. So you did not have an easy entry into surfing and started as an adult. Tell the story a little bit of your first experience and how you well, I'm going to back up before that a little bit. So you lived in this very urban world doing techno. What's the name of the festival that you worked with?

[23:54] Lena: It's called Nation of Gondwana. It's one of the oldest techno festivals, actually. I mean, I think it's going to be 30 years very soon.

[24:03] Sheila: Oh, wow.

[24:04] Lena: That it exists and it's happening close to Berlin. Lots of people know it in Berlin, at least, but nowadays also, it has reached quite an international audience as well. And yeah, it's a really beautiful festival and it's still very much in my heart. And I also will be there this year for sure.

[24:26] Sheila: When does it take place?

[24:28] Lena: In the end of July.

[24:30] Sheila: And so you were living in this world, artistic music. Late night, I would imagine. Did you know any surfers in that environment around you?

[24:42] Lena: No, actually not. I was sometimes like a boyfriend of a friend, but no, actually that was completely no, I don't recall anyone.

[24:55] Sheila: And so what was the first maybe.

[24:57] Lena: They were secret surfers, right?

[25:01] Sheila: You didn't hear about what was the first moment that you thought, oh, hey, I'm going to try this? And then I think is that when you went to the surf camp?

[25:10] Lena: Actually, I mean, I was always very connected to water and the sea. I think it's also because my parents also always had that connection. My father always was sailing. Like he he really likes he said he likes to be underwater or really below, like diving, love swimming. And yeah, we always also spent lots of time at the sea or on the sea. In the sea. And I also always loved waves. Also as a child, I was playing in them and I also recall seeing surface, but I think it's a little bit this yeah, you see them, you think like, oh, yeah, that looks like fun. But then you think like, yeah, the boys surfing, they are so cool. And it hasn't not yet really been the time to think, like, I should go surf now, right? Yeah. I think it's this riot girl moment where you should actually understand that you don't really think the guy is cool, you just think that the thing he's doing is cool and that you would like to do it. But that took me a little bit longer. And it was for 30, like, ten years ago that I was thinking I still would be interested to try to surf. And then I went to the surf camp in France. That was in southern France. Yeah. But after a couple of days in the white water, my teacher said that we should pedal out and try to catch the green waves. Actually, I didn't know a thing about surfing. Nothing. I didn't know that waves come and sets. I didn't know what to do with a wave. I was basically just like, oh, there's white water. Stand up, stand up. For me, it was actually the waves looked big. I would have no idea what I would think about them today, but that day they felt big and strong. And so my teacher said, Take that wave. But the wave took me for sure. And there was quite a shore break, quite a strong shore break for sure. It's all beach breaks there. And so the wave smashed me there, which would not have been too bad if I would have known that I should definitely not try to hold my super heavy board, which was then those heavy, big boards was not a softboard then, right? So I did everything to just hold it. And so whenever the next wave hit, it just took over and hit me on every body part that was possible. But also I didn't know that waves come and set and I thought, I will be just in this situation forever and not will get out of it, because I just didn't know. And then at some point, there were actually people coming from the beach helping me out. And I had like, bruises all over my body and also probably a small concussion because the board also hit me on my head. It was really scary for me. And then after I don't know how many days of resting, the teacher said I should go paddle out again to not get scared of the whole thing and then peddling out. Sitting there, I was just totally panicked. I was, I think, blank white. And then the teacher said, well, surfing is not for everyone. So that really stuck in my head. And we peddled back to the beach because I was just frozen. I could not do anything. And I do remember that I still played a little bit in the white water in the next days, but I was super scared of waves.

[29:07] Sheila: And how did you feel? Were you sad? Were you disappointed or were you just scared?

[29:13] Lena: I think I was mainly scared. Yeah.

[29:17] Sheila: Pretty harrowing. That's terrible. And I never thought about not knowing that the waves, just in light of that particular experience, like not having any idea that would ever end, like you think, this is it, this is my life now, just going to be beaten by this board for the rest.

[29:33] Lena: Yeah, and just because of just not knowing how it functioned. That's really something that I also have taken from that situation, that the more you know, then the better.

[29:46] Sheila: Right? Which, you know, why you would be such a smart person and reach out and especially based on that experience, like how do you handle an injury, how do you take care of yourself? Not the way that that instructor did, who is probably well, I don't know what she was like, but there's definitely people that it's more that guy way of just throwing you back out there, giving you more information and sitting with you and making you feel safe and all the other things that she might have done in that situation that you later did for yourself.

[30:19] Lena: Yeah, exactly.

[30:21] Sheila: So that's pretty brutal. What led you back to the water after such an experience?

[30:29] Lena: I still loved it and it was difficult to overcome that. Or I don't know if I think there's still a tiny bit left of that experience in myself. But yeah, it took me just many, many years. And trying again and again and again and again and again and also finding on the way other instructors which were much help, much more helpful and just gaining much more knowledge about everything and understanding.

[31:02] Sheila: So what was that like for you? Kind of cultivating because you were living in Berlin at the time and then so how far, what did it take for you to start to spend more time in the water?

[31:14] Lena: Actually, to be honest, the following years, I was one of those surfers who would go surfing maybe once a year, twice a year, one week, two weeks. Like, really not surfing. Just starting all over again and again and again and just feeling like I still like it. I would like to continue it, but not really making the space in your life. So I would say it was like a very long distance love affair, which was very new again and again.

[31:53] Sheila: But what I love, which I think is incredible, is that you kept your enthusiasm and passionate about it. You didn't go and try maybe you had moments, but you weren't like, oh, I'm never going to get this. You were just like, I love this and I'm going to find a way to make space in my life for this. What was the shift when you finally said, okay, it's got to. Be more than once a year.

[32:15] Lena: I think it was really maybe three and a half, four years ago that I also felt like Berlin was not so much the place that I really wanted to be, my center of life. I mean, still, like lots of my friends are there who I love and also where I miss. But the place itself was not really what I wanted anymore. And so I started to make more space for surfing and being with a van, being at the sea, being in the nature, and also trying to work more remote from there. But it really, really changed when I moved back to Hamburg and really having the opportunity to go within an hour to AC, where there are waves, where to surf. And that was really the game changer.

[33:12] Sheila: So how far, just for perspective, when you lived in Berlin, how long would it take you to get to surf?

[33:18] Lena: I mean, it is possible, as I said, to surf in the Baltic Sea, but that would be still 3 hours. And that would be going 3 hours for interesting waves. So most people from Berlin would go further. They would go to France and that would be by car, probably maybe 15, 16 hours, 17 hours.

[33:45] Sheila: Okay.

[33:47] Lena: I would say most people in Berlin who are surfing, they usually fly to places to surf or they go for really long vacation with their van, or longer, at least like a longer one. So worth going?

[34:02] Sheila: Yeah. That's amazing. And then yeah, flying with boards, that's its own whole deal and expense. So okay. I didn't realize it was I am geographically challenged. Although I have driven through Germany, I wouldn't have known it was that far. That makes but I can picture it now. So you have this van. So how many people have these vans? You said people get their van and they plenty.

[34:28] Lena: It's a lot of people.

[34:30] Sheila: Oh, really?

[34:31] Lena: Yeah. So it becomes more and more.

[34:36] Sheila: So now what kind of a van is it? Is it a Volkswagen or what?

[34:40] Lena: It actually is it's an old Volkswagen T four? No, it's ten years younger than I am.

[34:47] Sheila: Okay. And then it's all outfitted for you to camp.

[34:53] Lena: Yeah.

[34:55] Sheila: I love this vision of all these Europeans buzzing around in surf bands.

[35:03] Lena: But it's also especially now in the Pandemic, everybody wanted to have one. I mean, before it was already like hashtag van life stuff.

[35:12] Sheila: Right.

[35:13] Lena: That's very instagram. And now it even became more through COVID that people were like, okay, this is actually a safe way to travel. You're for yourself, you can stay distance. And lots of places are now very crowded because lots of people understood that this is a really nice way to move around. So there's also places are also changing, locals are getting more ****** about it, which is also understandable. Also not everybody is really taking so much care about keeping the places clean.

[35:51] Sheila: But still that's interesting. I see. Yeah. So it's sort of like a whole little economy has formed, but instead of there being little boutique hotels and whatever, they're more places that were more localized or remote, and then suddenly people can, you know, descend upon them. Probably for a pretty good length of time, too. Week or two weeks. That's interesting.

[36:15] Lena: Yeah.

[36:17] Sheila: Beautiful economy around it.

[36:19] Lena: That's a huge economy around it, actually.

[36:22] Sheila: Are there, like, food trucks? Okay, so describe this.

[36:24] Lena: No, it's more like the whole buying vans, converting them, buying gadgets for them, all kinds of things. And also just the vans themselves. They got so expensive because there's such this big demand.

[36:43] Sheila: Are they? Mostly volkswagen.

[36:45] Lena: No. Okay.

[36:46] Sheila: All right.

[36:47] Lena: I think Volkswagen is just a very famous one. But no, there are all kinds of other brands that I could name now, but I don't yeah, that's okay.

[36:57] Sheila: Yeah, I guess I've seen the Instagram van life thing. I just hadn't really translated it all to years ago. I had a Volkswagen bus that I shared with my friends. Four of us owned it together, and it was a VW. It had the pop up the pop up tent and camper. It was if only I had served back then, I could have had a lot of fun. But, yeah, they're amazing. And it's like everything it gets sort of commercialized and then doesn't seem as cool in a lot of ways. But I hadn't realized because I don't see it here on the island. I'm sure if I was on the mainland, I would see a lot more of it, but here it doesn't really exist on the island, and it'd be difficult to find parking places and things like that a little bit. I think there's actually people that rent out, like, airbnb their airbnb vans. I think there is a little bit of that. The last question I had sort of about this transition period is did people think you were crazy? Like, just zipping off to freezing cold water and living this alter ego of surf life? Did you have to find, like, a whole new group of friends?

[38:03] Lena: Well, I mean, I do still have my old friends, and I love them even though they don't surf. And I also know that they part of some really I mean, actually, some of them are surfing now, too, or they tried it out. Others might not really understand it, but be still supportive. I don't know to what extent they think that I'm crazy.

[38:30] Sheila: Your friends probably don't know, but I.

[38:32] Lena: Think there's just yeah, generally if you go somewhere and go into the cold, like usually people ask, Isn't that cold?

[38:41] Sheila: I guess that's yeah, it's cold.

[38:47] Lena: And you get photographed maybe a lot by tourists. That's also an expression of thinking that you're at least a little bit crazy.

[38:57] Sheila: Right.

[38:58] Lena: But I think also within the people going cold water surfing, I think we are all a little bit you have to take it with a lot of humor and I think there's no way around it because it is a little bit crazy.

[39:13] Sheila: How long can you stay out with all of your equipment? Like, how long can you stay?

[39:18] Lena: Yeah, it really depends how well your equipment fits and also on how fit you are and how you deal with cold. I usually can stay out for like 2 hours. Okay. And also you need to be very cautious. Like if you notice that you're getting cold, you should definitely go out because that's more dangerous than when it's warmer.

[39:46] Sheila: Interesting. That's a whole other peril. And you can get I suppose you could get that sense of warmth that comes from hypothermia if you're not careful.

[39:55] Lena: Yeah, you need to be careful.

[39:57] Sheila: I would get and again, I didn't surf. I only surfed in like a four three wetsuit and I had thick booties. But back then it was different. That was 2001. Plus I was poor, so I think the four three was a little bit cheaper than the five four. So I got that one. But I just remember my feet would get completely numb and then you have to be careful walking out of the water so you don't break your ankle. There's a whole other level. And then I finally got seven mil booties and then that kept my feet warm enough that I didn't feel in danger. And then I had a hood and everything and gloves, the whole deal. It's weird. Normally I balk at the thought of it, but you make it sound so good. Sounds very refreshing.

[40:45] Lena: It is very refreshing.

[40:47] Sheila: Very resetting, as you say. So how did cold water you mentioned it took you a while to find your tribe, and so I think this was part of it. How did Cold Water Sirens, which is by the way, just such a great name, I love it so much. How did that originate and what's the dream?

[41:13] Lena: I think that was also one thing that hold me back for a while was that I always went to the spots by myself. Then waiting for a long time, should I go in, should I not go in? Not really having surfing friends. And so I still went sometimes to surf camps, just not to go by myself. And then one surf camp actually in, andalusia I finally met my first surf buddy, Patricia, and she was also in the camp and she was also a little bit like we were both not super happy in the camp. We were felt a little bit alien. And then we started to get to know each other. And after that camp, we were both like, hey, that's going to be our last surf camp from now on. We just go and serve together. And that we did. And this is now. Yeah, four and a half years. I don't know, I'm not so good with time.

[42:03] Sheila: Oh, that's great.

[42:05] Lena: And then we started to travel together with the vans, and then we slowly grew more. And now I think we are like it's a whole lot of bigger group. Not everybody knows each other, but everybody gets to know each other. It's different constellations and it's a whole different game. Like, for me, it's like this is, for me, a dream that came true to have this surf gurgang going out together.

[42:38] Sheila: How many people are typically out at your normal? What's your main break?

[42:45] Lena: Okay, that's maybe a little bit. I was now talking about it more in general.

[42:51] Sheila: Okay.

[42:53] Lena: But my memory that's really hard to say. I don't have one, actually, because I don't live next to one spot.

[43:04] Sheila: Because you post a lot of photos from this one that kind of has bluffs. Is that Klit Mueller?

[43:10] Lena: Yeah, that's in the area of Clitmolar.

[43:12] Sheila: Which is just hilarious name.

[43:15] Lena: We love the name.

[43:24] Sheila: So let's just take that break for an example. What is it like? Is it sandy beach break, point break? Or do you walk out, paddle out? Just what are the conditions like there? Because people can go to your Instagram, which I'll post in the notes and see those photos and just kind of imagine what it's like. Is that the place that you call Cold Hawaii? Sorry.

[43:47] Lena: Yeah, exactly. Cold Hawaii is a couple of spots. It's a region in the north of Denmark, and it's not so far from Hamburg, so lots of people from northern Germany, especially from Hamburg, are driving up there. When the forecast is good, it's like 5 hours drive. Okay. And the region up there kind of goes it's a stretch, about 30, 40. Wow. North yland. And there are different spots. And you have beach breaks. You have also sand covered reef. They are very different, actually. Also, the level that you should have surfing them. Also, some are for short board, others more for longboard. You have a huge range, actually.

[44:32] Sheila: Okay. I'm trying to imagine surfing a shortboard in that weather. Duck diving. That's okay. That's a reset. Duck diving. The ice cream headache. So the spot that you post a lot of pictures kind of where you're at on that bluff, is that a beach break there? That's what it looks like, yeah.

[44:54] Lena: That's a beach break.

[44:55] Sheila: And that's kind of a longer wave.

[44:58] Lena: There are rocks like rocky. It's a rocky ground. It's not beachy beach. Oh, okay. And that's a longer wave can be a really nice long board wave. But yeah, in this area, I don't know exactly which referring to what you're talking about, but I guess I have an idea. No, you really find various, various breaks. And also in the conditions, like, if it's smaller, it can be a really mellow wave. But then there's like more spell coming in, which can happen because you have this window in the northwest where actually the swell is arriving. So it's not like, for example, in the Baltic Sea, you get only windswell or so in northern Germany, in the North Sea, what you get is usually windswell with maybe like just a little pinch of ground swell. And especially, I think there was also now on Magic Seaweed they covered quite a lot about there was like this article about cold Hawaii and there were these barrels and one of the spots.

[46:08] Sheila: Oh, you showed me that. Yeah, you sent that to me. That was incredible.

[46:12] Lena: Yeah. So this can happen to something typically.

[46:16] Sheila: What'S the size of wave that you're surfing? Well, I guess you surf so many.

[46:21] Lena: Different places, but I think my one and a half meters is what I like comfort zone.

[46:30] Sheila: I think that's like 5ft. Okay, so like almost head high.

[46:35] Lena: Yeah, right around head high. Okay.

[46:38] Sheila: Depending on how tall you are. Right.

[46:40] Lena: It I'm not soaked.

[46:52] Sheila: So what is your goal with going forward? I know that you are looking at doing some different kinds of gatherings and offerings with cold water sirens. So what's on the horizon?

[47:05] Lena: What we are organizing is like feminist surf trips. So everybody who can identify with that idea is very much invited. And what we are planning now is actually two trips and combine surfing with systemic coaching. We already did this now in the beginning of the year in Denmark to start the new year actually in really cold waters. So also for people to try out cold water surfing and to be supported in that, but also to try to really combine it with this approach of systemic coaching and to try out what happens if you combine this experience.

[47:43] Sheila: What is systemic coaching.

[47:48] Lena: Now? I would need my friend and colleague Anna to really explain it because she's the systemic coach. Yeah. It is a form of trying to see what are the questions that you have in your life right now. It can be like you can I don't know, maybe it's about where you are right now in your life, where you would like to go. Maybe you are in some point of a crisis, maybe it's just about your job. Can be also questions reading or about your surfing. Like really maybe something where you're a little bit stuck, where you could need a little bit help, somebody who asked the right questions. And it's not therapy in that sense. Like it's not a psychologist or a therapist asking the question. But a systemic coach is like really trying to use tools or has different tools to work with you to figure these questions out.

[48:49] Sheila: I love that.

[48:50] Lena: And we thought this is really good to combine with surfing because this really has the energy to shake things up and suddenly you maybe question certain things in your life. So to combine this with this systemic coaching approach could make sense. And she's actually also doing it from her van. She's called Van Life Coaching. So she does that already sometimes remote. And yeah, we actually got to know each other because we have exactly the same van. That's actually how we met once in Britannia in France, and we started this now together to combine it. And we are super looking forward to do this again in June to have like a second try in the summer with a lot of light and warmer. Like, for you it would be still cold waves, but for us it's really warm waves.

[49:48] Sheila: Yeah.

[49:49] Lena: And then the other trip that we would like to organize is actually to combine it with Brazilian. Yuzu.

[49:56] Sheila: Okay.

[49:57] Lena: This is a very different approach.

[49:59] Sheila: Wow. I love stepping out of the yoga thing because although that has been amazing, that's an amazing option. This is a whole new way, new whole approach on this. Fascinating.

[50:13] Lena: There's also always the possibility to do some yoga on top. But I also think it's really interesting to combine to find other combinations. And I think yoga still makes a lot of sense just because oh, totally. How it stretches your body and everything.

[50:30] Sheila: It's so complimentary and calms the mind. Very complementary. But yeah, it is interesting because I haven't seen anything else really combined with it. So these are both just incredibly fascinating. And I think especially with the systemic coaching, so much comes up when you're trying to learn to serve. I mean, it brings up everything about your life. So it's really a fascinating you can have a bad session and come in and be like, I need questions answered about not just why can't I pop up, but why can't I move forward in my career or whatever.

[51:04] Lena: Yeah, and also questions about do you really lead the life that you want to lead right now? And yeah, I think that totally makes sense. But I'm also super excited about the Brazilian YouTube because it was not really my idea. I was back in Berlin and I went to a party and I met an old friend of mine and she also is working, or used to work as a bouncer in the clubs in Berlin and she was like, hey, I heard you organize these surf travels. Now maybe we can do something together. And then we came up with the idea.

[51:41] Sheila: It's just so bad ***. Yeah, it's just a bad ***** surf trip. You're going to serve cowater waves, you're going to do jiu jitsu. Yeah, at least that's the way it's sounding to me. I mean, I'm sure there's much more to it, but it's so cool.

[52:01] Lena: I'm super excited about it. But yeah, the main idea is still to come together and to support each other and to have lots of fun actually, and to share these moments and also really encourage especially women non binary. And I think a lot of people are still very much left out of surf culture and don't feel comfortable also with the I mean, also still, I mean, for sure there's much more women surfing now. There but also the representation is so bad and I think there are still so many blind spots that should be addressed. Also age wise, I think the people that are joining our trips, it's probably 35 plus going up way higher, and we really encourage that.

[53:01] Sheila: It's such an empowering thing and I think learning as an adult and as an older adult, older woman, it is a deeply emotional and spiritual experience and especially the higher up you go in age because it's just such a very difficult thing to do. And hats off my friend Jeannie, who started at 67. I have friends starting at 55, 57 in their forty s. And there are different experiences you're going to have even in your 30s if you're a fit yogi starting in your 30s versus somebody starting in their fifty s or sixty s, it's a different experience for sure, but it gives us this texture on the water. And I know one thing I talk about with a friend here named Kona who is kind of still in the beginner realms and she's in her 50s. She really struggles with feeling not supported by women here because I think we have kind of a scarcity of waves and so there's a scarcity of places that we can surf. If you're trying to learn to surf here, it's just very hard place to learn. It's very reefy, rocky, so it interestingly, breeds a very competitive culture with women, not a supportive one. And that's been her experience. I don't experience it completely like that, but I've been surfing a long time, so getting women in the mindset and what she was saying, which was interesting, is the men are generally nicer there's, the ones that just burn you and are obnoxious and rude. So I think it's important to have these conversations to remind us to not go into if that's an old biological default of scarcity, that we compete with each other, to remind us to be there for each other. I think when the waves are more bountiful, it's a more natural reaction and we're always going to feel a little competitive because you're scratching for waves and it's hard to get better and there's a little bit of that in there. But I love the whole dialogue you're having and community and everything that you're creating to just acknowledge all these places and how badly we need it and how badly we need each other.

[55:23] Lena: Also, I think just the feminist approach is really to start a different kind of culture in the lineup. And for me it doesn't really much matter if this is a man or woman CIS men. For me, it's super important as a feminist approach to help find a different culture in the lineup, which is super supportive and also just really celebrating each other's waves and also laughing a lot and really also not to take this whole thing too serious in the end. And I mean, I know it's hard because you really want to get better also in surfing and it is a very difficult sport but at the same time really never forget about how important it is to just be kind to each other. I think it's easy to forget sometimes and also if it's a crowded spot, it's still possible and maybe sometimes it just means they have to wait a little but then you maybe have a nice chat with someone next to you. I think there are so many possibilities to not have. It too competitive.

[56:37] Sheila: Yes, so true.

[56:39] Lena: And then to just share some waves.

[56:42] Sheila: And.

[56:44] Lena: That'S really one of the aims that I would have.

[56:48] Sheila: It's really powerful and it's important that it's happening all over. It's important that it's in the conversation because it's not natural. It is not natural to lift others really. I mean in some situations it is, but in situations where you all want the same thing, it's like learning how to share in kindergarten or share the cookies. It doesn't always come naturally. Sometimes it does for me. If I've just caught a fantastic wave man, I am full of love. Everybody get a wave. If I've been sitting there for half an hour and everybody's surfing but me, I'm not so benevolent. So it's training ourselves. It's training ourselves to have a better life for all of us. So I know it is late there. I'm not going to walk you through all these questions. I have two more questions I want to ask you because I want to know first of all, what is your best day surfing that you can remember?

[57:50] Lena: I'm super lucky because there have been so many. I can't really make a lot, but I'm 100% sure that somehow there's a sunrise or sunset or lots of rainbows or something like that involved. And it's probably somewhere in a northern place where lots of different colors are in the sky. And I'm 100% sure that it's some super great people together on the water and just really cheering for each other.

[58:20] Sheila: Makes my heart warm.

[58:22] Lena: Always the best cheerleaders for each other. Actually I cannot make out this one. Best serve day.

[58:32] Sheila: No, that's a beautiful portrait. I love that. And then the last question and although you've really given a lot of this already just based on everything you're focusing on but what is one thing that you would like to share from your journey? One thing that you would like women.

[58:47] Lena: Surfers to know I think really look actively for your crew. I think something that I maybe started a little bit late that could have helped me a lot earlier. And I think that nowadays it's really much easier. I mean in social media there are all these groups. For example, one of one very good surfing friend of mine like she was writing a couple of years back in Britannia in one of those groups. Hey, I'm here in Britannia. I don't want to surf alone anymore. Anymore. Is there someone? I was writing her like, hey, I'm here. Just come over. And she was like, okay, I'm there. And half an hour. And then we spent the next two weeks together surfing. And we are still surfing together also at Cold Water Sirens. So I think really be yeah, for sure. Don't give up and look actively for your crew. Be a cheerleader for yourself and to others.