Jenni Lund - Kona and Costa Rica

Jenni had become expert at many sports, vocations, missions, but, at 55, living in Hawai’i, she was still ruled by an old story of “I can’t surf, I’m too old to learn, it’s never going to happen.” When Covid hit, she found herself surrendered to the call she had been hearing her whole life, breaking through the fear and doubt, and committing. And did she ever commit! Following a surf epiphany, she uprooted her life, scooped up her teenage son, turned over her home and business, and bailed Hawai’i for nearly a year in Costa Rica. After a brief return to the islands, she decided to sell everything she owns and charge back into the unknown, pura vida style. Jenni is one of my personal sheroes for modeling how to jump through what she calls “windows of opportunities,” being willing to be uncomfortable, and absolutely going for it.  We also had a lot of laughs in this episode - hope you enjoy!

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Transcript

[00:18]
Sheila: So, Aloha, and welcome to the Dropping into Power Podcast. I'm so excited today to be talking to my friend Jenny Lund. And Jenny, oh my gosh, where do I start? With Jenny. She's just sitting before me, this beautiful, radiant being. And that's a misnomer because you are all of that, Jenny. But what's so incredible to me about you is you really do have this combination of this radiance but this sort of badassery that's in there. And now you stepped into this other kind of energy because you're opening up to this just completely new adventure. It's a blend maybe I really understand to and relate to that you can sort of be in this glowing place and also just kind of kicking ass, whether that's flying down a mountain on a snowboard or paddling through huge waves as you're just learning how to do it. And now coming in from what I've been talking to you just before, to sort of a new way of molding those together, which is really interesting to me. So we're going to talk about that a little bit. But the main thing is Jenny is off to Costa Rica and for a little background, Jenny and I are almost exactly the same age. I met her when she was doing acupuncture on my daughter, an incredible healer, really efficient, really intuitive, really on it. And between the time that she started working on my daughter and then COVID happened and there's a whole story to how this happened for her. But at 55, were you 55 or 56? 55. She decides she's paddling out and not only is she paddling out and taking this on and just answering this call so hard every day, so hard, opening up this world, making these friends. Next thing you know, she's down in Costa Rica. The next thing you know, she's back. Maybe I'll come back to Hawaii. No. I'm going back to Costa Rica. And just this personifying that you're doing of this deep call that you hear in your body and man, girl, you go for it and you go for it. And you have a son and you have been around a little while, it's not everybody's story. So your courage and I think to me, what really stands out for you and it comes from this very soft place, but this total commitment, man, you are committed. And it's funny because as I was saying, all this I'm preparing kind of feeling that that's how I've always known you. I see this energy coming up in you that's more like this still powerful presence of doing. So it's really interesting and cool to me. I know that's a long intro in a way, but I just want to give some context because you're a really unique, special, amazing person. And you were like, well, really, you want to interview me? And I'm like, you're so inspiring. And you're like, really? Because I think you're just so doing it, but you're not thinking what you are embodying and walking with and it's just lovely. Okay, all of that to say hi, Jenny.

[05:03] Jenni: Hi, Sheila.

[05:04] Sheila: Thank you.

[05:05] Jenni: Amazing introduction.

[05:07] Sheila: Yes, my pleasure. Thank you for finally in fact, the funny thing was Jenny was going to do the podcast, but then she was like, I mean, this was really maybe six, seven months ago and we had it kind of all set. When was it?

[05:22] Jenni: Well, it was eight months that I left for Costa Rica eight months ago.

[05:25] Sheila: So she sent me these beautiful questions back, this sort of deep dive. I'm so interested in her story. And then she was like, oh, sorry, going to have to postpone moving to Costa Rica. And I was like, what? So everything has happened since then and we're going to have to walk back to that because I do want to touch on some of your story growing up, because another big part of the story that interested me about you is you're this woman who has accomplished so many things, followed so many dreams, and we'll get into some of those. But the one that was very elusive to you and seemed very out of touch, even though you grew up on Maui, was surfing. And this is a big part of what's evolved for you. So let's start there. Let's start with what it was like for you growing up on Maui.

[06:15] Jenni: Well, in general or surfing wise, I.

[06:18] Sheila: Guess just in general. And I know that you were an athlete and it was interesting to me that you were going coed since there was no other opportunity. But yeah, just growing up on Maui. Growing up as a girl on Maui.

[06:31] Jenni: Yeah. We moved to Maui and I was pretty young in 1976 and I remember going to Key Hay Elementary School in bare feet and pukas in my shorts and the same clothes every day and I was very much the little Holly girl and it was very undone on Maui at that time still I think there was two traffic lights and really have really fond memories of my childhood and we spent every day at the beach but surfing. It wasn't in my world at all and I only saw boys surfing and I thought that surfing was something that only people who could handle big waves could do. I didn't really understand at that time that you could surf smaller waves. I thought that you had to be out in the big scary ocean and I was pretty intimidated pretty early on by big waves getting caught in big waves and getting thrashed a little by the ocean as a kid and actually I almost drowned earlier than that at Kahulu. I went out in the waves at Kahulu on Big Island. We lived on Big Island for a little while and I went out at swimming at Kahulu Snorkeling and I got caught in the surf out there because I wasn't paying attention and this surfer, this local surfer kind of picked me up and threw me on his board and paddled me and kind of tossed me on the beach like stupid. Tally kid.

[07:58] Sheila: How old were you guys?

[07:59] Jenni: I think I was affected by that and just not having any role models at all for something and it's so.

[08:09] Sheila: Funny Kahulu keeps figuring I guess I'm talking to Kona girls but it's funny it keeps popping because it's such a unique place and I always like to mention yeah. It's gnarly it looks all beautiful and it's where they take the surf schools but the current get crazy and you could get dragged down to other beaches and it doesn't look it it looks.

[08:31] Jenni: All nice and pretty aquarium.

[08:33] Sheila: But it's not look like an aquarium. Yeah, exactly. It looks like an aquarium but it's not. So were you on Maui? Where would you have gone where there were waves? Because the Key Hay side I know.

[08:46] Jenni: There'S not a lot of waves that was probably a cove was really the only little surf spot. La Peruse was further south.

[08:54] Sheila: Oh, La Peruse, yeah.

[08:55] Jenni: And then Malia Bay would have been the first one.

[08:58] Sheila: Oh, and that can get really scary. Yeah, Melia Bay. Oh my gosh. In the last twelve I don't know if you sign me to the footage.

[09:05] Jenni: I saw it, it was crazy looking.

[09:08] Sheila: And Maui's tricky too. People have an image of it being so easy to surf in Hawaii but it's kind of not there's a lot of different tricky spots and tricky pieces about it. I guess there's places surfing is tricky.

[09:22] Jenni: To me in any way.

[09:24] Sheila: Yeah, it's so tricky. That's interesting. So you right. Now you said you played soccer?

[09:30] Jenni: Yeah, I played coed soccer because there wasn't enough girls to play on Maui to make a team. So I just played with the boys until I really just got so small sometime in high school. The boys kept growing and I stayed kind of small.

[09:49] Sheila: Did you do other sports?

[09:51] Jenni: I did track and field and this was all around sporty, kind of tomboyish boys, road bikes, ran, jumped. I wasn't very good at anything that had a ball except baseball or football. That kind of stuff I was no good at. But if I had to run, usually I was pretty good at it.

[10:16] Sheila: And so even you said even there were no Hawaiian girls surfing at that time.

[10:21] Jenni: There was one girl that surfed and she was not a Hawaiian girl, she was a holly girl whose dad surfed and they lived in Malaya. And so she was the anomaly. And I really remember her for that. I thought it was crazy that she knew how to surf.

[10:38] Sheila: That's so interesting, isn't it? Yeah. So we were both born in 1965, and I guess we must have kind of just missed the gigit thing or whatever, and that would have looked really stupid to us. I know that whenever I saw those movies that just looked really dumb and dated, I didn't relate that in any way, too. It wouldn't have had any or like Elvis movies. It would have been in that category. So I wouldn't have ever thought that. I did finally see some girls surfing when I was in high school, but it was just really not I guess California maybe had no, not really. I mean, we just really didn't see it. I find it so interesting that even women I've interviewed women, most of us are over 40. There's been some in their thirty s and twenty s, but even the younger ones really hadn't seen much surfing. But especially us for women. I mean, we really haven't. And the only images we ever saw were women standing on the beach in the copper tone in the bikini. So yeah, it's interesting that that was so separate. And of course, title nine, you're an anomaly being so athletic at that time, my mom still told me that she was afraid my muscles would turn into fat because I was very athletic, too. I was more just solo athletic. But I remember saying, oh, be careful with the running because your size, they're going to turn into fat.

[12:04] Jenni: I've heard that too.

[12:06] Sheila: I mean, the stuff I'm worried about it. You're worried about it? Yeah.

[12:10] Jenni: I vowed when I was little to just never get out of shape. That was my thing when I was little, I was like, I don't really see the reason why. If you keep moving, you'll probably get out of shape.

[12:21] Sheila: Yeah, and that sounds really logical now, but that was not what was being told to us. So that was your own unique how.

[12:28] Jenni: Is my own take on things like yeah, it could, but what if I just keep moving, then how could it be muscular?

[12:36] Sheila: And you have I won't make you go through every beat, but so then you went to college, and then I just love the sports that you discovered and how you did this, because there's parts to how you explored this.

[12:51] Jenni: Yeah, so in college, I learned how to ski. It was the first time I ever went skiing, but I didn't really take to it. And it wasn't until after college, really, that I started. I was living in the city, and I was doing concert promotion, and that's what I did with my business degree. It was a great time in Seattle because it was the grunge scene and all the music was really popping. And also mountain biking was this new sport that I had started to take up. And so after I would get off work, I would run off to the mountains and ride these trails after work. And I kind of started to fall in love with the mountains, really, I think, and the activity in the mountains and being away from the city. And one of the mountain biking guys that I rode with said, hey, you should take up snowboarding. And it was just at this pivotal time where I'd been doing concert promotion for long enough that I was a little bit ready for something else. My boss asked me if I wanted a raise, and I said, no, I don't want to raise. I want two more weeks off a year. And he said, I can't give you two more weeks. I just kind of had to recalibrate and be like, this isn't really the life that I want to live. I want more freedom. I like to travel. And so based basically quit my job, and I got a snowboard because my mountain biking partner owned a snowboard shop. And I borrowed my aunt and uncle's trailer and I parked it at the top of the ski area and got the job waiting tables. And I started airplanes. Yeah, that changed my life. I never went back to the city, and I snowboarded for nine years. And then I became a skier because skiing got fat and short and twin tipped, and you can just do a lot of backcountry more easily on skis.

[14:47] Sheila: I was really intrigued by that when you said that, because years ago, I did a little cross country skiing and I loved it. I never telemarked or anything, but I just love the idea of having that kind of freedom. But it's so terrifying going down any sort of incline on across country, even if it's literally like three degrees, because there's no edges, there's nothing you can do. So that was really fascinating, the equipment. And there is a really equipment opens, new worlds equipment. Like when I started surfing, when I alter the 80s, nobody surfed in Humboldt County because it was 48 deg. So wetsuits changed everything. Really good wetsuits changed everything. There were a couple of nuts. Okay, so you're living at the top of a mountain, you're snowboarding. Are you just working, doing whatever at that point?

[15:36] Jenni: Just to do whatever, I'm doing seasonal work. I thought I wanted to be a river raft guide, and so I trained for that. And then I dumped all my friends and family in this class, three rapids, and decided that I'm in this freezing water. And I thought, I never guided a trip after that because it terrified me so badly. And I fought forest fire for a year, but it was a lot of testosterone, and yeah, that was a big thing then, was to do seasonal work, the ski area, and then work.

[16:12] Sheila: I remember that. I worked in a ski area for a season, and I remember that hole. And then the Alaska fishing boats.

[16:19] Jenni: Yes, that was the other one. My dad wouldn't let me do that because he worked on fishing boats. So he said, no way, you're not coming up there. You'll hate it. But I continued the seasonal work, and I became a yoga instructor. So I was waiting tables in this little town in the mountains and working at the ski area. I did that for a long time. And traveling. I spent a lot of time traveling in different places. I spent a lot of time in India and Nepal because I was really drawn to the roots of yoga, and I got real into all of that philosophy and visiting the places where it all came from and immersing myself in all of that, looking for enlightenment and doing that whole trip as well as skiing really hard and biking really hard.

[17:04] Sheila: Well, it strikes me that when I was reading through your story and just talking about it, that all of these things you really were in the beginning of all of them, your timing was amazing. Just landing with the mountain biking when it was first starting, getting to grow with that, and getting to be a part of the beginning before it got crowded and overwhelmed, and same with snowboarding. And really early to that deep dive in yoga. Too early. It's probably the second way, but still really early in mainstream, being able to make a living and an impact on people doing that. And then acupuncture, too.

[17:42] Jenni: Totally. And when I trained for yoga, I was only two schools in the whole United States that actually even had a yoga certification. Wow. And Ananda and I went to Anonda because it was in Nevada city, California, and it was closer, and it seemed like a good spot, but yeah, I guess all of it was early on. And we used to snowboard in Syria's. Really weird bindings that super obsolete. That spark changed really fast.

[18:09] Sheila: So that was because I was working on a mountain in Tahoe that was god, it would have been 84, I think. This one I worked on, snowboarding was just infant. I kind of knew some people that did it, but not well enough. I never got to do it. And then I spent time in Brian head, Utah, for a while before that became a big. I was married to a blues musician, and he would get to spend the winters up there, and I would go visit when I wasn't working and skiing, cross country ski. But now that's a full and again, kind of missed the snowboard moment. It was just happening, so I was sort of dancing around it, but I never got a chance to put my feet in there. And I always thought I would have been good at it because I surf regular foot, but I'm actually goofy foot, so I always thought that might help me, but now I'm kind of chicken. So the reason I bring all that up is I think it's got to be such a different experience. And I also noticed in your story that you almost drowned and drowned people in water. So there's a water thing going on here that you've really, I would say, mastered these other elements. I know you don't consider yourself a master, because I'm sure there's masters of all kinds, but nonetheless become really expert and proficient in these other sports and then in your life. And we're sort of jumping ahead. Your acupuncture, getting into that pretty early in the curve, jenny is extraordinary. Like, you're not just an acupuncture, so you have a lot of tools, and it's not what you're focusing on right now, but you went big. Like, you're not just somebody sitting in lotus. Here, let me put a few needles in there. Like, it's really transformative what you created and really successful. I think that's the element. I also want to show when I've met you, you have that business acumen and that ability to create and shape from your own gifts and turn it into something tangible. And maybe that's something you've built over your life, or maybe that's something I'm kind of having a feeling is something you always had a bit of a knack for living. I lived in a trailer on a cliff, but I never managed to make enough money to go anywhere. I had a little drinking problem and other things. I spent my money elsewhere. Just, again, this focus that you have, and that part is inspiring because I think a lot of people just don't believe they can do it and just up and do it. So let's talk a little bit about the water thing and your story that you told yourself up to the age of 55. Look at what you did. So, this is what I wanted to point out. Like, you've done all these amazing adventures, you've restarted life. You've traveled to India, immersed yourself into the deepest depths of yoga. You've brought that back with your wisdom. You've studied these incredible paths, memorized, gone super deep, gone from the top of mountains but still there was a story. You're living in Hawaii, you see at this point, lots of women surfing, and there's still this story. So talk about that, how that kept kind of barking at you or what that felt like for you.

[21:30] Jenni: I wanted to surf so badly from some point. I can't remember when it was exactly, but I would take surf lessons when I would travel back to Hawaii. I would have friends try to teach me how to surf. I took surf lessons when I traveled to Costa Rica, and every time I did it, something would happen that made me feel like it just wasn't good. I'm not good at it because things generally came pretty naturally to me. It wasn't hard for me to learn how to ski. The first time I got on skis, they were like, what? You've never skied? Or same with a snowboard, right? Three or four times on the snowboard, and I was making turns, and I was already in powder, and it was just no problem. And riding a bike, I've always been really good at balance and things like that. And on the surfboard, I don't know. I don't know what it was. I would get out there, and I think that I would be and then the board would hit me in the face. I'd cut my foot. I would run into somebody. I couldn't figure out how to stand up. I didn't know when to paddle. I couldn't read the wave. Even though I boarded, even though I body surf. Not well, but not as badly as, quote unquote badly as I was surfing. And the last time I tried to surf it was when I lived in Hawaii. I had moved here, I think, in 2014, and a girlfriend of mine let me use her wavestorm, the soft one, and, yeah, the Costco board. And I was kind of having fun on it. And the next thing you know, I fall off at pine trees, I go to kick, and I slice my foot open so bad that I'm almost passed out on the board. I'm looking at it, just gushing blood, and I'm like, I'm done. And then I'm so traumatized, almost dizzy, and I go to put my board on the car. I forget to tie it down.

[23:45] Sheila: Drive away.

[23:45] Jenni: I get home, there's no board on the car. I can't find it.

[23:54] Sheila: You never even felt it come up while you were traumatized?

[23:57] Jenni: No.

[23:58] Sheila: Someone got a free wave story.

[24:01] Jenni: Clearly the ocean doesn't want me to surf. Something doesn't want me to surf. I'm not good at it. And that really just solidified the story that I had. Like, I'm not good at that. I'm not good at it. I can't do it.

[24:13] Sheila: Well, your feelings hurt. Did you feel insulted by the ocean, or did you feel, like, just frustrated?

[24:21] Jenni: I would think I was more just frustrated and confused, like, Why? I love the ocean so much. Like, why is this happening? Why can other people do this? And I can't. And every time I tried, it seemed to reinforce my story probably more, because the story was there to somehow to start with, or there was a fear or something that had been planted early on by that incident at Kahulu or just my perceived failed attempts at surfing, I don't know. But it was a really strong story that I definitely couldn't surf. And then it became, I can't surf. And then I would ask people, hey, do you think I could learn to surf at this age? Because now I'm getting older and it was solidified. People would be like, yeah, it's probably going to be pretty hard. They look at me kind of sideways, like, probably not. So I wasn't encouraged by the feedback either. So I was believing what I was told, and I was believing in my inability, and I was just making sure that that story was true so that I can close that chapter and just get on with my life. And I'm not a surfer, sadly.

[25:44] Sheila: So then what happened?

[25:46] Jenni: So then COVID hit, and I had already carved out this space in March because I was really feeling like I needed some time, because I knew that I wanted something else to come into my life, but I didn't know what it was. And I knew that if I didn't make time for something new, then there was no space for something new to come in. So I had already X off the last two weeks of March, which my birthday is hidden in there, too. It was a birthday gift. It was a gift to myself to kind of try to sit with myself and reflect and just have time to see if there was something that was wanting to come into my life that wasn't just the day to day busy. And what happened was covet. And so my business closed because we were all kind of required to close. And it was confusing and it was fine because I had already taken the time off. And then I sat with the space and said to myself, okay, this really feels like a time to do something that I've never done before. And what makes me happiest? And the answer was that being in my body makes me happiest. Whether I'm learning how to salsa dance, which is something that I did. I took off six months and went to Pru to learn how to salsa dance and or go, you know, yoga makes me happy, running makes me happy. Biking makes me happy. Biking is really hard to do in Kona. And all of a sudden, it landed on me. I thought oh, my God. No, it's surfing. No, not surfing. But I knew it. There was a part of me that was just I was certain that I needed to learn how to surf, so I decided that I would hire a coach to take me out for a couple of lessons. And I did. I hired somebody who wasn't really supposed to be working because all the kind of just hold my hand and tell me when to paddle and what to do. And we went out at Kahulu, and I'm sure it wasn't big, but it seemed like plenty of wave to me. And I just remember I was cold. I was so scared that it was not even reasonable that I was so scared. And he would tell me when to paddle, and I try to paddle into those waves, and all I could see going into the wave was just I just looked down over that little edge at the top of the wave, and all I could see was all the rocks and the reef down below, and I just didn't get it. I'm like, how am I supposed to drop into that with this big balm thing and not just annihilate myself?

[28:41] Sheila: Right?

[28:42] Jenni: And pretty much that's all that happened was I was just falling into ways and kind of wiping out and not really understanding. And it was so scary to me that when I was done, I got into my car and I just sobbed. Like, just sobbed my eyes out. And I was also proud of myself at the same time. And we had made an appointment to do a surf lesson the next day, and I think I ended up actually doing three lessons with him, enough to just give me the confidence to know how to get in and out of the water with a surfboard and to know how to paddle out and to kind of have some idea of where to sit. And for some magical reason, that year 2020, there was waves every single day at Honolulu for, like, two months.

[29:29] Sheila: Wow.

[29:29] Jenni: Like, enough waves to go surfing. That is amazing, because at that point, when the waves finally stopped, I was like, what did the waves stop? They could stop.

[29:48] Sheila: This is so weird, right? Why would you ever think about it otherwise?

[29:54] Jenni: I never thought about it. I never looked at a surf report. I just got in my car in the morning, and I started to learn that I really liked to go early because there was less people, and I felt less intimidated because there was less to think about if there was less people. And I had this little seven foot Taquito, which was a child stand up foamy paddle board. That was my surfboard.

[30:22] Sheila: I love it, though.

[30:24] Jenni: And I was the biggest dork out there in a full wetsuit because I was cold. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And I made so many friends. Like, so many people were nice to me up there.

[30:35] Sheila: That's really incredible because it's not everybody's experience. It's not. So I think that's what you brought with you, your sheer determination and your willingness to learn. Like, you're trying to learn etiquette. You're hiring somebody. Like, tell me where. To sit, what do I do? And I think it can be a relatively friendly place here. But you really had I mean, I actually wrote about I wrote an article about how women service can change the world and I mentioned you not by name because I was so struck by you telling me that one point, oh, I just made all these friends and hopefully not everybody's experience. And so I think it's incredible that you brought that and I have to believe it's in your attitude and also in having respect and having joy and having commitment. Like I do think surfers, especially those old timers that are out there, especially once you started surfing limons, they admire commitment and you are out there every day paddling around on your tuquito stoked because I know at a certain point I started seeing you. I don't go to this break too often, but I know you were surfing limons. Maybe that was when the waves got bigger because they went away for a while, as they do sometimes.

[31:58] Jenni: No, my son got me out at Lyman's. He made me go out there on a day that was small so that I could he said, mom, you're going to really like it. And I had figured out how to get up on I had figured out a little bit how to paddle into waves and stand up and go to the left or go to the right. And so he made me go out to Lyman's on a small day and just feel it and get to know it without having too much waves to deal with. And I really liked it. And so I started kind of getting up the courage to go there a little bit.

[32:42] Sheila: So Liaman is for perspective because sometimes I forget I'm not just talking to you. It's a big open left and it's a point break and it's fairly deep. It forms into this beautiful, sometimes more mushy left, but it can definitely throw at the peak and get hollow. And it's one of the places that holds the biggest swell on the island. And when it gets really big, the best long borders on the island show up there. And even when it gets really good, there's always a big cadre of really good long borders old timers people have on the island for a long time. And it's just a beautiful wave. It can get really crowded by big island standards, but it's just so pretty and you can get this big open wall if you've never had one before. And it can be really magical because I'm surfing a much shorter board these days and shortboard is surf there, but it's a different dynamic. You have to then sit way inside or directly at the peak and it becomes the whole thing. And I'm always intimidated sitting way out at the peak. There's a lot of good women that surf out there, a lot of good. So here you are now and you're starting to see women. Surfers, so what was your experience with women versus men in the lineup? Or was it just equally everything or what did that feel like?

[34:14] Jenni: No, the women were I befriended the women really fast. The women were really friendly, they were really encouraging. Everybody was really warm for the most part. I mean, there's always somebody who's grumpy. I'm not always, but I run into people who are unfriendly sometimes. But for the most part there's this big posse of Kona women that are really cool and really welcoming and so that was my drive down there and still is honestly awesome. It's really awesome. And a lot of us were learning or hadn't been surfing that long, the women that I started hanging out with you. So that was fun that I was I remember being on the inside and saying, I'll get to the outside with you guys in another year.

[35:10] Sheila: That's cool.

[35:11] Jenni: Yeah, that's very cool. And for the most part, a lot of the men are really friendly too, especially the old timers and the local guys that have been around for a long time. I found everybody really encouraging and I ask a lot of questions and I really try to stay out of the way and take my turn and I just do my best to be yeah.

[35:34] Sheila: Let me ask you that for people, because there's definitely people that serve much more crowded line ups than we deal with and are going out. It's very intimidating. Some places are just the people are not kind, but even given. So everybody would say like, hey, just start having every day at Lyman's and you're going to make a whole bunch of friends. So what did you do? You just hinted at some of it and you just did it naturally. I know you didn't have some mockybellion plan, but what were the things that you could share with people to have that experience?

[36:10] Jenni: Well, I read an article several years ago in Surfer Magazine about some guy who went out somewhere at North Shore and he was super intimidated by the lineup and nobody smiled and everybody looked scary. And he went out there day after day after day and surf whatever break he was at, I don't even know. And he was saying that people seemed really unfriendly. And then at one of the last days something happened and he just decided that he would to be more nice or to smile at people or to say hello. And he realized that that was the secret, like they were giving him what he was dishing out and they said that to him in the end, they're like, yeah, Brian, you didn't smile, so we didn't smile back. Like you came out and you're all stone faced and serious, so that's what you got in return. And I really stuck in my head. That was even before I was a surfer, I was like, oh, you got it. Really, you have to be friendly to get friendly, even if you're intimidated, but.

[37:14] Sheila: You have to do it in conjunction with etiquette and respect and all of that other stuff.

[37:18] Jenni: Totally. And I was stoked. Like, I'm naturally so happy that I'm actually surfing at this point, right. That I actually am trying and I'm getting better. So I'm feeling so proud of myself. And so I am I'm really excited and I want to make friends because I don't want to be in the way. And I want to learn all of the etiquette because there's so much to know out there besides how to pop up and where to be and when to paddle and all of the little things that I'm still learning.

[37:50] Sheila: So did you ask people literally, what's the etiquette?

[37:53] Jenni: Yeah. What should I do? Where should I be? Oh, I noticed that I took off, or I noticed that I was kind of in your way. Was I in your way? Where should I have been? Or if I did take off and it seemed like whenever there was something going on that I didn't understand, I would just ask someone, like, can you help me understand how to do that better? Or, this happened. Was that good etiquette or was I technically in the wrong place? Or I had to let my board go because I couldn't hold on to it? What could I have done that would have been safer?

[38:26] Sheila: I love that, every single kind of.

[38:28] Jenni: Question, because as you know, there's so much to understand. One of the things I love about surfing is just this deceptively simple, beautiful, elegant sport that it is that's just layered with all kinds of tiny little details that seem to me at this point to be endless. Like there's so many little ways to do things that can help you, right, if somebody points it out, or if somehow you just figure it out or you watch enough videos now these days on YouTube or whatever. Yeah. So it was a combination of my genuine stoke and really wanting to understand the sport and also understanding that I need to be nice. So even when I show up out there and I'm really scared on the inside, I'm still trying to be nice and trying to use etiquette and just make friends.

[39:30] Sheila: I love it. I think it's so great. And I do really feel, just listening, I think just the showing up, the showing up, the showing up, all of those things combined, I've definitely noticed because I've surfed all around the island and all the years I've lived here, sometimes I've gotten to surf more than others. But since I moved up here and I live near pine trees, I surf pretty much. People ask me from the mail in the book, how often do you surf? And I'm like, Pretty much always every day, especially this last year. And even going the same time every day you start to get a crew and it really changes and takes off some of that pressure. Their names and they know yours. I can remember their names. I have a little booklet now, actually, on my phone. I keep the names and I describe when I meet people because I'm really bad at remembering that stuff. I'm just kind of in my own head. So I now come in from the surf and I've met somebody. I write it down and I write down something that they told me, something about their family so I can try and embed it not so that we have to have a huge discussion, but that it just makes me more present and they're more real. And then if they get the wave and I don't, I feel better about it and it's just fun. It's just way more fun to know the people that you're with. It just takes the whole edge off. So it's kind of interesting to me that it's taken me longer than you would think to learn that in different times of day or different like, I personally prefer the morning crew if I can pull that off in the evening. Everyone's a little more stressed out. They're trying to get their waves in. Some of them came from work, so it just depends. How have you dealt with because you had those really scary experiences. So how have you dealt with bad wipeouts? Have you had some really scary wipeouts?

[41:31] Jenni: All in all, I would say that the scary wipeouts don't really deter me. They haven't been as scary as I think that they're going to be, put it that way. I've had close call scary wipeouts. I've definitely cut myself, but I haven't really hurt myself. Knock on Wind and I don't know if it's because I'm a little bit too careful or too cautious. I've definitely had to go in before because I've taken it on the head or I've been pushed to the bottom and broke my board a little and bashed up my feet, but nothing that made me not want to get in the water the next day unless I was actually a little hurt.

[42:23] Sheila: Right? I love it. I love the perspective. The difference between it was so scary I got dragged out of Kaulu and didn't go on the water for 20 years, too. Like, well, I got cut up and smashed and dragged in and took it on the head, but yeah, no biggie. So I know, yeah, this is what it's like. Oh my gosh. It happens to me all the time if I don't get hurt. I love wipeouts. I love being in maybe like a slightly overhead wave so there's a lot of foam and then you sort of bounce up and down like a popcorn ball in the lottery pool. That's what it always reminds me of. I feel like I'm in the lottery thing. Oh my gosh. The last time my friend and I went out at Lyman's and the super big swell that was here a few weeks ago, and we didn't go out the biggest day. We went like, the day before, and it was kind of breaking in this direction that you could sit way inside. We were on shortboards, but then we're sitting way inside and then the set comes and I'm just looking at it. I'm like, oh, my God. It was just a massive wall of it. I mean, I just got absolutely cleaned, but I was cracking up the whole time. It was so fun because it's not that shallow. You're not going to get hurt.

[43:41] Jenni: No.

[43:43] Sheila: When the fourth set came, I was tired, so I was like, okay, I'm sitting in the wrong place. I got to get out of here. The evolution of how this unfolded for you is so beautiful to me. So let's now get to the point where you are because I never even really got to talk to you about this. So one day you're doing your Acupuncture thing as coveted, started to come, open things back up, and I think you were working again. And then suddenly you were off to Costa Rica. So I'm curious how you created that and also what it was like for you. You were down there living on a peninsula for a long time.

[44:31] Jenni: Yeah. So Costa Rica was a dream that got planted in 2018. I went down to Costa Rica because a girlfriend of mine had invited me down and we sat and we did medicine at Shanti Wastey, this place called Shanti Waste. And I was going through a really bad break up and I was going to use medicine to help me process that break up. And I did. And it was like, they're profound and there's waves down there, but I wasn't a surfer. And we went from the OSA Peninsula where Shanti was. He is across the gojo duce to the Pavone's side. And I learned that I'm in the surfer Mecca. There's everybody walking around with surfboards under their arms, girls, boys, everybody's in bikinis. And I'm just bummed that I'm not a part of and I'm learning that this is like this huge left and we're in this crazy world class.

[45:35] Sheila: Are you goofy for it?

[45:36] Jenni: No, I'm not. But I seem to surf a lot of left.

[45:41] Sheila: Yeah.

[45:42] Jenni: So I fell in love with the place, the people, the place, the whole experience. It was my third trip, I think, already to Costa Rica. I loved every part that I had been to. So came back, visited a few more times, the same area, still not a surfer. But there was one day at Lyman's when I had had a phenomenal surf session and I was walking back along the water's edge there like you do to get back to the road. And I just had this thought come into my head, like, I don't think there's anything more important in life than surfing I can see how people just give up everything and just go to find in search of waves. Because there is something about the sport that is unlike any other sport or anything that I've ever done in my entire life. And honestly, I think that's saying a lot because I feel like I've had a lot of experiences. So there was that. And then I had gone to this meditation retreat in Sedona in August of the same year that I ended up going to Costa Rica, which was last year. 2021. Yeah. And I got coveted and I came home and I was integrating this intense meditation work that I had done and integrating this intense body thing that had happened to me with COVID. And I said, I don't think I'm going to go anywhere for a while. I'm good. I'm just going to stay home and I'm just going to hang out, surfing kona and just kind of isolate a little bit until this coveted thing goes away. Because traveling was so intense with all the testing and the whole thing was just like, wow. And then it wasn't. Maybe two weeks later, I get a call from my dear friend Mike, who had just built a house down in Pavone, and the same girlfriend that I had gone down with in 2018 had built a house next door to his. So I have two friends, two houses in Pavone. And Mike says, hey, I'm having my birthday in Costa Rica. It's a big one, it's my sixty th. You need to come down in November. And I was just thinking, there's no way I'm going to go to Costa Rica in November. And then my brain starts going and I'm like, wait a minute, what if I went down and just I just started thinking, tia, my associate who was working for me, didn't have a place to live. Her house deal had just fallen through. I was thinking, oh my goodness, tia could live in my house. She could run my practice, I could just go to Costa Rica. I text Mike, Mike, what if I come down and live in your house? He's like, yeah, come down. How long do you want to be here? I'm like, what, about a year? Yeah. Cool. It was just really off the cuff. Like, I think he was kind of just throwing it out there, thinking I wouldn't follow through, because who does, right? And then everything fell into place and it really was. Within six weeks, I had packed up my stuff, transferred my house in business to Tia, and I was off to Costa Rica in November, the middle of the rainy season with all.

[48:39] Sheila: I love that this came from you deciding, like, just in the way you're telling the story. It just feels like where it really came from is you standing there saying surfing is the most important thing in the world.

[48:49] Jenni: I really think that it was. I really think that that was the moment where and I was like, now I can go down. I'd never surf down there.

[48:57] Sheila: Right? You've been down there and never surf.

[49:00] Jenni: Yes, but it was this idea of like, here's a window of opportunity. And I'm really big on windows of opportunity because I think they open and they close, and I think a window of opportunity is a chance for us to push against that edge and being uncomfortable and saying yes to something that doesn't make sense, and it's a practice for me. Like, this doesn't make good financial sense. It doesn't make how am I going to make it all work? I can't figure it all out. I don't know. The answer was, I don't really know how it's all going to work, but I know that there's this window of opportunity, and it's beautiful. And here it is right at my front door. I could say no, and then I would wonder if I missed something, or I could say yes and just see what happens. And so I did. I decided. And my kid was on board, so he's like, yeah, let's go to grocery store.

[49:51] Sheila: That's amazing. That's amazing. Mine would not be the perfect kid.

[49:57] Jenni: Who likes to go and he likes school. So COVID taught us that he really thrives in online school.

[50:04] Sheila: That's amazing.

[50:04] Jenni: And so it was possible in that way that it all kind of lined up and it still was really scary and kind of unknown, and so we just did it. Yeah.

[50:16] Sheila: So tell me first about the surfing. Like I want to know. I have to admit, I had some moments of jealousy thinking of you down there just surfing every day where I'm doing my spreadsheet. So be careful what you ask for because my story is going to change, too. And my life is amazing. I get to Sofia and it's funny with you because you create these things and you're like, I guess you're very inspiring to me. I remember when you bought your house and I was like, oh, my gosh, how did she pull that off? And I felt a little jealous. Really happy for you, but a little jealous. And then all of a sudden, a year later, I'm buying a house, and I'm like, oh, my God, I did. It inspired me and made it happen. And I'm like, oh, now Jenny's in Costa Rica feeling a little jealous. It might be a sign. It's a good jealous. It's that part that wakes you up. It's like, Wait a minute, wait a minute. I feel that when I feel like, I could create this, why am I not doing that?

[51:23] Jenni: I'm not special. I'm not anything special.

[51:29] Sheila: But I appreciate what you're saying. What do you think? I love just how you just frame that there's windows of opportunity and you can't figure it all out. And granted, someone could say, well, you had all these other things you pieced together, but you've done it many times in your life without as many of those pieces. But here are the themes that I hear is you ask for help, you make friends, you put yourself out there. You get your aunt and uncle's trailer. Like, yes, you had one with the trailer, but you did it. You make friends with these other people, you ask questions. You definitely have this high level of being able to do stuff. But surfing broke that story because it wasn't natural to you. It's not natural to anybody unless you're okay, maybe Jackson Dorian, okay, we'll leave him out of it. But if you're not a kid and you somehow just aren't completely born into it, it's just hard for everybody. So you broke that story and you're creating this I don't know, just walking down this path. So I want to know, okay, how much better did you surfing get? Let's talk about that.

[52:40] Jenni: Well, my surfing changed because I came down with my son board, which was seven, eight, which was the first board that I really feel like I started to catch bigger waves on and do different things with. And I took it out right. I went right to the point, the hardest wave of the whole thing because there's lots of different breaks. We did surf different breaks. We surfed a couple of smaller little places before we went to the point. But almost right away, Pukar and I my son went to the point and it was a pretty big day already. And it felt like Lyman's to me. It felt like that left point break. And so I remember just paddling out and I had to paddle through the whitewash and it was kind of intense because there's no way to get out if you don't go through the waves. So that was already really new for me because in Hawaii, if they come in steps, either come in steps and you can kind of time it to get out, or you can paddle around the brake, right? Yeah, there's a channel, and in Costa Rica, where we were, there was no way out other than through it. It's always breaking. There's always something coming in at you and it could be bigger or smaller, but it's wave after wave after wave after wave. And so I had this what I considered to be kind of a lot of board and I could catch a wave and go in with it, but then I had to get back out again. And when it really was breaking, having that big board, it became, like, scary for me. It was like, I have too much board and almost everybody out there is on a shortboard.

[54:22] Sheila: Okay.

[54:23] Jenni: Like, it's a huge disproportionate to people, longboard and shortboard. And I'm observing the people who are surfing. And it's a fast break. Pavoni's is fast and it's left and you have sections. It's a really long left, but you have to get around these sections, and you got to go fast enough and stay high enough and know when to drop down and get around to the next section. You got to pump your board. And I was like, oh, I'm going to have to learn how to shortboard. And that happens pretty quickly. And at the same time as I was kind of looking for a shortboard, I ran into this couple who was visiting who'd been going down to Provonis for, like, 20 years or more, and Dina and Mike. And we had the same crew of friends from my skier, Stevens Pass, from back in, like, the day, way back in the day. And it just so happened that Mike was the inventor of Good News Snowboards, which then morphed into LibTech, which is now like, a surf company as well.

[55:21] Sheila: Oh, wow.

[55:22] Jenni: And we became fast friends, and they had rot boards down, and Dean is like, I have this little 510 funnelator. You should try it. So I was like, I'd love to try it, because I was trying all these different choreboards, trying to figure out what felt good. And Dina's 510 was like, the board, and so she gave it to me. She's like, you need to keep that. That's just your magic board.

[55:49] Sheila: Amazing.

[55:52] Jenni: So then I had to start learning how to duck dive, and my serving changed because I'm sitting in a different place. I have to pop up a little bit faster. I was less comfortable because the wave needs to be a little bit steeper. And so I spent the first couple of months honestly, just kind of getting annihilated, trying to figure out how to surf all over again. And I was stoked and frustrated, both like, oh, my God, this is so hard.

[56:16] Sheila: Yeah, totally. It is good. In three months, I feel it's been three years on a short board, and I'm just finally figuring some stuff out. I have moments, I have a harder time with the pop ups. I don't know, even maybe I don't do as much yoga as you. Maybe I should get back to the yoga.

[56:34] Jenni: I made myself do yoga more regularly because I need it, and I need that upper body strength to really pop up right, yeah. And not get tired too fast.

[56:47] Sheila: Do you have any tips? Any shortboard pop up tips for the late bloomers?

[56:51] Jenni: Oh, my God, no.

[56:53] Sheila: Okay, well, even doing yoga, I think.

[56:56] Jenni: That the trick is well, for me anyway, is really keeping my upper body strength and keeping my flexibility, I think are really important. That's what I've noticed is just strong.

[57:10] Sheila: And flexible, but yeah, that makes sense. I noticed for me, actually, lower body strength helps a lot. Like, for a while, I was going to the gym, and I'm not anymore, but doing weights with my legs, and that really helped me too.

[57:22] Jenni: I probably could use that.

[57:23] Sheila: All of it.

[57:24] Jenni: Yeah. But it's like, once my arms get tired, if they get tired too fast between paddling and duck diving and just sitting out. And then you go to paddle into a wave and suddenly my arms are just a little weak because.

[57:43] Sheila: Tell me, what is your favorite thing about your surfing?

[57:47] Jenni: My favorite thing about my surfing? I don't know, Sheila. I think my favorite thing about my surfing is that I'm actually surfing. I feel like I can surf.

[58:02] Sheila: Yeah.

[58:03] Jenni: I feel like I can go out to many different kinds of surf areas and figure it out and catch waves. And I may not look that great, and I might look awkward on the board because I learned to serve so late in life, but I'm having fun and I feel super proud of myself. And I'm so stoked that I'm on a shortboard because honestly, I've always wanted a shortboard because again, I like the simplicity of the tininess of it and how it fits in my car. And it's so small and light and it's just left to deal with in the water. So when a big wall of water is coming at me, it's just less bored to have to maneuver in intense situations.

[58:47] Sheila: I feel that way 100%. And I just got a magic board. I just got a new board. It's a 511 pyzelle phantom. Oh, my gosh. I've been kind of dreaming of it and looking forward and looking at all these different boards online and trying to figure out how hard online to figure out what you might want. Then one of the surfers, because I started asking more questions, too, where I serve like a the good surfers, like, why is my foot in this? Like, what's going on? And then they would tell me. I don't like it when people necessarily tell me when I haven't asked them for serve instruction, especially men. But I do really like it when somebody I've gotten some amazing tips, like the last few months. It's so helpful. So this one surfer, Paul, I thought you should try and Phantom. And at the time, I couldn't even really think about it, and they're so expensive. And I was like, oh, I don't know. But I kind of planted a seed in my mind. And then I kept sort of looking at them, looking at them online. And then there's another server who had the board, but it was bigger. But I held it and I was like, I think this is it, but this one is too big. And so I went to Miller Surf and they had their so it's just been amazing. And I've been surfing waves this big. I've been surfing like 1ft waves on my shortboard and catching waves, two foot waves, because I'm just determined and I don't want to take the bigger board out. I just want to keep practicing. It helps me pump. It's just more pop ups. It's just more paddling. It's just more familiarity with the board. I'm finally learning. Like, I. Know this is embarrassing, but wow, if you actually put your foot where the fins are, where it's supposed to go, a whole new set of things happen.

[01:00:34] Jenni: I'm trying to figure that one out right now.

[01:00:36] Sheila: It's so hard. I know it sometimes, even when I'm trying to get up, I'm paddling. Especially when it's small, like, I'm paddling and if I'm going left because I'm surf regular, so if I go left and I get my right foot on the fin pad, but my left leg is too slow coming up, then the board just shoots because it hits where it's supposed to be, and it just takes off without me. It's really funny. I'm like, oh, so that's where it's supposed to go. So every 30 waves, I think I get my foot in the right place. It's getting better. It used to be like every 100 waves. Now you're going back to Costa Rica. I do want you to share. We talked a little bit right before, but it was really lovely kind of how you came to this. So tell us just what you're going to do and now what you're doing now.

[01:01:35] Jenni: Okay, so I came back to Hawaii to regroup and get back down to Costa Rica because I needed to re rent my house out. And so I was going to go into autopilot, which is do what Jenny knows how to do, spin something else up, get somebody else into on my business, rent my house out, have everything, make money, and then I'm going to be off again. And all of a sudden, I got back to Hawaii, and I realized pretty quickly, as much as I love it here, that this was not where my heart was, it wasn't where I wanted to be. I thought about, yeah, I could do all those things and I could go back to Costa Rica. But I think that what I need to do is I think I need to pull a plug and go to Costa Rica, which means sell your house, let your business go. And so I had Acupuncturists flying in from Washington that were going to run my practice, and I had to say, hey, I'm sorry, I'm not going to do that plan. I got a different plan. I'm going to put my house on the market, and I'm going to just take everything and I'm going to head south, because that's where I'm feeling right now. And when I threw that idea out to my son, he's like, yeah, mom, that sounds great. Sell it. I'm ready. Let's go. I want to be in Costa Rica. And so I had the support of him. And so that's what we're in the middle of doing right now, is moving to Costa Rica, which I wouldn't have ever known how to do. But just having spent the last eight months down there, I can see the how. Yeah, I can see the how, and, yeah, I'm really lucky I have a house down there waiting for me for two years, and I have a lot of friends, and I have a tribe on the OSA Peninsula, and I have a tribe on the other side of the Gulf hold, and I just feel like I have a huge community, that all. Kitty.

[01:03:31] Sheila: Well, it sounds like Jenny's magic plan is make a lot of friends.

[01:03:35] Jenni: Make friends.

[01:03:38] Sheila: Like, really a true light in your life is have fun, make a lot of friends, show up, like, full on and just go for it, because you can just feel that in everything you're doing. Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited for you, and I'm really excited to visit you. You haven't invited me yet, but I'm coming.

[01:04:00] Jenni: Oh, you're invited. Please.

[01:04:02] Sheila: I have another really dear friend. She lives in Nasara, and Jeannie, who did the podcast, and I met her, she started surfing at 67, and she had done all these incredible things in her life ridden motorcycles, been oh, you listen to her. She's so awesome. And she just built a little cabana. So I've got to get my Costa Rica trip together here. One of these days, I guess, my time is going to open up a little bit differently, but I don't know. How far is Polonis from Nasara?

[01:04:36] Jenni: Far.

[01:04:37] Sheila: Far.

[01:04:37] Jenni: Super far?

[01:04:38] Sheila: Yes. It's like the whole other opinion that's.

[01:04:42] Jenni: Completely you can get there, you can fly around, you can drive. It's not that hard.

[01:04:49] Sheila: Back in the day, we took some crazy because the first time I went to Costa Rica, I went with my ex husband who didn't like sand, who didn't like water, who didn't like sun, and we went to the jungle, and it was a beautiful place. But I remember kind of not dissimilar to you, I didn't surf yet, and just looking at all of this and going, wow, what am I missing here? And then I came back to California, got divorced, started surfing, had this hot boyfriend who surfed, and then we went back to Costa Rica the next year, and we brought eight foot boards, and we took buses everywhere and crazy taxi cabs, like, going into Guana Caste, like, down these four wheel drive roads. We took boats across lakes. It was just this huge adventure. And I was there for 23 days, and oh, my gosh, it was incredible.

[01:05:40] Jenni: And still is somewhat of an adventure, but it's not as undone.

[01:05:46] Sheila: Yeah, that was a long time ago. Everywhere, right after 911, that's when I went. It was really different. All right, one last thing I'll ask you, just especially for people beginning later in life, I just always like to ask this. Is there any word of wisdom you can offer, anything that you'd like to share?

[01:06:08] Jenni: About surfing?

[01:06:09] Sheila: Yeah, about surfing. Oh, yeah. Well, no, if you would have shared about life, go right ahead. But yeah, about surfing, and you've said so much in the podcast, so it's all right, if you don't have everything whipped up. But there's just one thing because people feel so much fear, so much self doubt, so much self talk.

[01:06:25] Jenni: Yeah. Well, it's funny because you wrote this question out, like, as potential questions that you might ask. And I thought about the way that you wrote it was yeah, I think it was any words of wisdom? And I thought, well, if you haven't started surfing yet, don't start, because I'm part of this new generation of surfers that's clogging so many people surfing. Now. I know that it used to be sort of this free spirited, adventure filled sport that somehow seemed unattainable, so it kept a lot of people away. Right. And now there's so many of us. And I don't know if, like you said, maybe it's the equipment, maybe it's just the accessibility. I don't know what has changed, but wow, there's a lot of us out there.

[01:07:16] Sheila: No, that's so funny. I know what you mean. I think we all have mixed feelings. I've been surfing for 20 years, and I have a movie that I really think is going to get made and will make it even be more accessible. And I'm like, wow, do I really want more people surfing? And there's kind of a through line that goes through it, too.

[01:07:40] Jenni: Surf camps. And people go to surfing yoga camps and it's all these things, and then these big surf camps come and they take up the whole lamp and it's.

[01:07:48] Sheila: Just, oh, my gosh, wow.

[01:07:51] Jenni: But I also think there's a reason why it's popular.

[01:07:55] Sheila: Yeah. I think there's something I think it's just calling us to the water in this deep thing. And not everybody is going to stay surfing. Right. I mean, that's what I feel, is a lot of people that are being called to it, they're being transformed by it. They may stay with it or they may not, but it's changing them and it's changing it's empowering. There's something it takes so much courage and you really do take such a beating compared to any other pursuit that you will do as an adult. I often think about that. I'm literally getting pounded. I'm like I'm 57 years old, I am upside down. I'm being shaken like a rag doll and I'm laughing. That's got to be good for the circulation.

[01:08:38] Jenni: Yeah. In Costa Rica that I wiped out, I was really close to the shore, so I kind of hit the rocks. I'm paddling back out, I wipe out again, and my court somehow wraps around my pinky toe one time and my board goes flying and my pinky toe is being choked. And I'm thinking, how can you possibly get your cord wrapped around only your pinky toe? And, like, just completely, almost chop it off. It was just like, how many different ways can you get hurt on your surfboard?

[01:09:19] Sheila: No, it's so true. I've had it happen with my pinky finger. Like, I totally know what you mean. It's just crazy.

[01:09:26] Jenni: It's crazy.

[01:09:28] Sheila: I love your ending advice, and thank you so much. I love the odyssey. Thank you so much for doing this, and I'm so excited for you.

[01:09:38] Jenni: Thank you for helping me be brave. Because I'm not a big social media person. I like to share my thoughts as a writer, but I don't like to share so much. Like, I don't like to talk about myself, and I'm a little bit private, and so I was nervous about talking to you, but it was really fun. I'm so glad you're making it fun and easy.

[01:10:06] Sheila: I think it feels good for us to just hear each other talk sometimes, just as women on the verge of nervous breakdowns, breakthroughs, whatever it is. So I really appreciate it.

[01:10:23] Jenni: Just like, I've been living on this edge of discomfort purposefully, going to Costa Rica and learning to surf, and this is just another I thought about today, Sheila, and, like, this is just another opportunity for me to step up to my edge and be uncomfortable and just sit in that uncomfortableness and move through it.

[01:10:45] Sheila: Well, thank you. It was awesome.